Massive drop in views on kid channels


Mr. Johnston is suggesting that COPPA is unconstitutionally vague. The void for vagueness doctrine does not apply just because the regulation or statute raises difficult questions of fact. Statutes are only void for vagueness when they don't articulate a standard. Further even assuming arguendo that the statute is vague, you have to prove that it encourages arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement. Just because Youtube LLC has utterly failed to provide clarity does not some how create any obstacle for the government to overcome. The FTC has treated this whole situation with kid gloves and exercised extreme discretion in allowing the status quo until January.

Mr. Johnston talks about Director Smith's comments about the unattended consequences of COPPA enforcement leading to a "desert of crap." Youtube is only going to become a "desert of crap" due to Youtube continuing to pursue their altered algorithm. Views aren't tied to ads, kids will gladly watch these videos without ads. The "desert of crap" argument is only valid when the government allows Youtube to refuse to take action to legally support kids content. Youtube can and should create a system where parents provide consent with age gates to allow children content to continue to thrive. Youtube has decided that profit is more important than protecting kids and loyal kid content creators. They are certainly free to make this business decision, but they are not free to lie about it particularly when they are wholly owned by a publicly traded company.

I respect Mr. Johnston's effort to protect his business, but he needs to provide a full disclaimer of what his advocacy is all about. His channel is mostly watched by kids and the inability to run personalized ads on his channel will result in a tremendous loss of revenue for him. There may be adults watching his channel, but the vast majority of his audience is kids. While I disagree with advocacy groups on many of their perspectives, there is valid research showing that this enforcement is necessary. We as content creators can't ignore this and we must be prepared to take concessions.

Mr. Johnston says that the best thing to do is continue to put pressure on the FTC. I disagree, the best thing to do is to continue to put the pressure on Youtube. It is quite clear at this point that they have NOT done enough.


I disagree with some of your points. Having owned several businesses in the past, I have talked with lawyers about this very issue. I have written some of my own legal disclaimers and release of liability contracts and submitted them to my lawyer for review. In every case, where they found language that they deemed to be vague, they instructed me to provide excruciating clear definitions. The reason for this, was this, "A person cannot agree to something they CANNOT understand". My lawyers told me that a judge will immediately throw out any contract that contains language that the signing party has no possibility of understanding because it is based on information not contained in the contract, that the signer has no access to, or the relies upon the subjective interpretation of the party presenting the contract.

I completely agree with Mr. Johnson's statement that the FTC has expanded the scope of COPPA way beyond the legislative authority granted in the 1998 law. Laws must be CLEAR in order to be effective and enforcabe. The 1998 law was clear and narrow in scope. It prevented the "Collection" of personally identifiable information, such as, Name, Address, Telephone number, etc, on children without parental consent. What the FTC is doing now has "ZERO!!!!!" to do with the original law, and thus is beyond their Constitutional authority.

The FTC is not a legislative body of elected representatives. They should not have the power to expand the definition of the law "BEYOND" the original scope of the law, and that is EXACTLY what they have done here. Their power was to be able to adjust the ENFORCEMENT of the law to accommodate the changes in technology, NOT to make new laws. Nowhere in the COPPA law did it address targeted ads as being a violation. Nowhere in the law did the collection of behavioral analytics fall under the definition of "Personally Identifiable Information".

It does not matter if you agree that children should not be targeted for advertisements or not. The USA is a representative republic in which the very foundations of our nation are designed to be a constricting system of checks and balances, the very purpose of which was to "Restrict" the Federal Government's ability to arbitrarily use its power to regulate the actions of the citizenry. There is a system in place for the creation of new laws. The FTC is not part of that system and they have way overstepped their authority on this issue, whether you agree with them or not. Mr. Johnson is 100% correct that they need to go back to the 1998 decision and let Congress address any additional legislation to protect children.



Now, as far as YouTube's involvement in this. Mr. Johnson revealed something that I did not know. The 170 million was not a FINE, It was an out of court settlement! That is huge information. What it reveals is that, YT was the one that went to the FTC with a proposal to stop the FTC investigation. YT was the one that offered the proposed restriction and implementations that the FTC is now enforcing over it. The ideas on how YT was going to handle this, did not originate with the FTC, they originated with YT. So, while YT claims they are just "Obeying the FTC", they are obeying rules that THEY set for themselves, in their own settlement proposal to the FTC to stop the investigation.

Why would YT do this? It is very simple. YT wanted to stop the investigation because if this had gone to court, what would have been uncovered by the FTC, might have been so damaging that it would have resulted in BILLIONS of dollars in fines. Essentially, if the crime you are being accused of, it way less then the crimes you know you are guilty of and are afraid will be uncovered during the investigation, go ahead and confess to the lesser crime to stop the investigation.

So, YouTube is the one that came up with how the FTC should monitor them. They also came up with this whole idea of holding Creators responsible for which videos are kid directed or not as a further way to protect themselves. I suspect this from the very beginning because the whole "Creators have to make the choice" thing, just wreaked of a CYB (Cover your Butt) maneuver by YT to pass the buck of responsibility for where they show ads on to the creators.

On a third note, I have never considered YT to be my friend. YT is a "For-Profit" business and I expect it to be 100% selfish and do everything in its power to protect its bottom line, at the expense and sacrifice of everyone and everything else. What YT has done is consistent with my thoughts on them and so I am not upset about it.

But when it comes to the FTC, which is part of the government of the United States of America; well, they ARE supposed to represent We the People. This is where mine and every true American's concern should really be. Our concern for online privacy protections should never outweigh our concern for the preservation of the Constitutional restrictions on our government, without which, we are all at risk of far worse than kids seeing a few targeted ads.
 
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The problem is, despite whatever the FTC says, YouTube is currently only letting you choose Kids or Not For Kids, no in-between. Plus they already started flagging videos as 'For Kids'. What does it matter what the FTC or COPPA says if YouTube's algorithm is already flagging videos?
 
The problem is, despite whatever the FTC says, YouTube is currently only letting you choose Kids or Not For Kids, no in-between. Plus they already started flagging videos as 'For Kids'. What does it matter what the FTC or COPPA says if YouTube's algorithm is already flagging videos?

There are a lot of powerful voices ringing the bell to draw attention for the lack of a "Family Friendly" (mixed-content) category, and I think with time we will get some solution. The FTC law actually addresses this issue and excludes creators of mixed-audience (family-friendly) content from compliance with COPPA. The Issue is that YT is the one who has chosen to force us all into two boxes with no middle. This is absolutely NOT a requirement of the FTC in this settlement, this is 100% YT's doing. YT chose to do things this way all on their own.
 
I guess if you make for kids there is not much can be done. We just marked the whole channel for kids. Keep an eye on this Disney Animation channel. We'll see if their frozen previews have comments, etc https://www.youtube.com/user/disneyanimation
I'll personally repot them to make a fair game if they still have comments and end screens

And I am right behind you. If it is good for the goose, it is good for the gander.
 
Okay. I have found a rational mind out there in the legal universe. This guy knows what he is talking about and is hitting all the points that I have tried to articulate on this forum over and over again about why this whole thing is a load of crap, and will never stand up in court. I recommend watching the whole video, but I am inserting at the point where he describes a mock trial and how the FTC's argument completely fails in a court of law.

 
Unless you are personally comfortable with being the indirect reason why a creator might get fined or banned in 2020, I would advise against posting persuasive material implying that creators are protected for this or that reason. Sometimes when we want something (or something to be undone) so badly, we put blinders on as to the full picture. This group coming up with great reasons why we are so correct on our forum isn't going to prevent YouTube from banning your account, regardless of how much info we have in our back pocket.

The reality here is that, as it presently stands, regardless of what lines you read between from a legal standpoint, YouTube has developed a system of yes or no. The punishments for no are potentially life-changing. Most creators are nervous and yes'ing, and because most are yes'ing, yes creators will come after no creators (I've seen it in past waves of major YT changes) because of the personal impact on themselves as to making that decision. Don't fall on your sword by no'ing with some kind of get out jail free plan in your mind, and lose your house over it. There are plenty of people who I've seen tweeting Team YouTube every post who have been banned for lesser reasons without remorse.

YouTube has added a new rule to their system. Until that is amended, if they deem that you are violating that rule, you can be banned. This isn't an FTC thing, or an XYZ thing, it's a YouTube thing. It is the same reason why ultimately international creators aren't safe. They are being asked to comply with a new rule that YouTube, not the FTC (yes, as a result of the FTC, but not by them), has deployed within their platform.

And while we are at it - to address the just check the "Disable Interest-Based Ads" checkbox camp, you are in the same boat too. YouTube didn't say that that is what you should do, and nowhere is it explicitly outlined that by disabling that box, your video still isn't utilized as a means to collect information potentially from children. It just means that contextual ads at most will appear on your content. We don't know what else is changed in the back-end of the system by flagging our content or channel for kids. Some of these lawyers are getting in here without an understanding of the information that is collected on the analytics side and are taking things at face value that they should not. Anyone who has a deep understanding of Google Analytics knows the power of what might lie behind the curtain of what we can see.
 


The one thing that this guy really makes clear is that the settlement that YT made with the FTC is not legally binding for creators. YT signed the settlement with the FTC, not the creators. The requirement that creators have to designate videos as "For Kids" or "Not for kids", is part of the settlement, it is NOT part of the COPPA law. The FTC absolutely CANNOT sue you for not complying with a settlement that YOU did not agree to. This is a huge reveal in this video. Creators are not liable for marking their videos correctly, no matter what the FTC says or YT claims. YT is the only one that bears responsibility. This is good news!
 
Creators are not liable for marking their videos correctly, no matter what the FTC says or YT claims. YT is the only one that bears responsibility. This is good news!
The settlement produced a new rule. YouTube is requiring us to follow their new rule. I'd hate to see creators losing their life's work through getting a permanent ban as a result of thinking that they don't have to follow the new rule. The problem here is how YouTube reacted to the FTC. YouTube knew that the FTC could dig in deeper than a settlement, so from their standpoint, I would imagine that complying with the discussed plan for the chump change that they paid for it is the best path for them. Deviating is probably dangerous. Joseph Simons and Andrew Smith (FTC) dropped enough comments in their coverage of this that in my mind there is evidence that this plan was discussed to some degree. It might have been reactionary and poor planning on YouTube's part, but it happened, there's a new rule, and we are being asked to abide by it. Niche change time!
 
The settlement produced a new rule. YouTube is requiring us to follow their new rule. I'd hate to see creators losing their life's work through getting a permanent ban as a result of thinking that they don't have to follow the new rule. The problem here is how YouTube reacted to the FTC. YouTube knew that the FTC could dig in deeper than a settlement, so from their standpoint, I would imagine that complying with the discussed plan for the chump change that they paid for it is the best path for them. Deviating is probably dangerous. Joseph Simons and Andrew Smith (FTC) dropped enough comments in their coverage of this that in my mind there is evidence that this plan was discussed to some degree. It might have been reactionary and poor planning on YouTube's part, but it happened, there's a new rule, and we are being asked to abide by it. Niche change time!
I agree. This is a new rule of their TOS so if FTC won't be able to sue you, YT can just block your account. So unless in 2020 FTC will tell youtube that you can add a checkbox that a parent is ok with targeted ads, comments there is nothing we can do if your content is for kids. I am hoping this will create a rise in other platforms.
 
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