A Warning About George Vanous/Freedom

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Tarmack said:
b******t. The key tenet of psychopathy relates to an individuals empathic response and has nothing to do with unpredictability or instability. Your misunderstood choice of that extremely reactionary term was not for educational or informative purposes but rather to deliberately degrade the character without any evidence of your stance to back it up. That is the distinction where libel enters the mix. Don't play word games with me, just fix your post and stick to the facts if you want to be taken seriously. I agree with many of your Freedom and George related comments, but that word choice was garbage.
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This is such a bizarre statement. Please research this before jumping to conclusions:

Libel HAS to be statement of fact, not opinion. You can read up on that in any legal dictionary or website (and would suggest you do if you're going to continue accusing people of libel):

This is taken from my legal dictionary: "it must be a statement which claims to be fact and is not clearly identified as an opinion"

On psychopathy, please see the following definition from psychologytodaytoday [dot] com
"Psychopathy is among the most difficult disorders to spot. The psychopath can appear normal, even charming. Underneath, they lack conscience and empathy, making them manipulative, volatile and often (but by no means always) criminal. They are an object of popular fascination and clinical anguish: psychopathy is largely impervious to treatment."

Other definitions include "extreme egocentricity" which you can see all over everything that Freedom creates. Exhibit A - The GEORGE Show

A little more research next time would be appreciated. I did a lot in writing my post and it would make for better discussion if you did the same.
 
Do a bit more reading. When you scratch past the surface of the words you've chosen, let me know. Labeling psychopathy based on instability and a significant ego is insufficient, as is sneaking out of libel by merely using "I think/believe". Had you done research before your post, rather than google in retrospect to justify, you would know this. Both concepts are far deeper in content.

As I said, I agree with much of what you have posted. I merely disagree with your chosen personality attack assertion and method. It is flawed in logic and design.
 
According to Skype, today is George's birthday so maybe pause the hate for today and come back tomorrow morning :p

lovly-happy-birthday-cake-picture-20140718124112-53c915e8a1165.jpg
 
Tarmack said:
Do a bit more reading. When you scratch past the surface of the words you've chosen, let me know. Labeling psychopathy based on instability and a significant ego is insufficient, as is sneaking out of libel by merely using "I think/believe". Had you done research before your post, rather than google in retrospect to justify, you would know this. Both concepts are far deeper in content.

As I said, I agree with much of what you have posted. I merely disagree with your chosen personality attack assertion and method. It is flawed in logic and design.
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I don't understand what you're getting at... Libel is a written statement of an untrue fact. Period. There's no sneaking out of it. I didn't make any statement of facts (or even close) in my original posting. You saying it was libelous holds about as much water as saying it was a Haiku or the lyrics to Beyonce's 'All The Single Ladies'.
 
George structures his show like a kids show. He offers free gifts to attract members. He lies about the benefits of joining freedom without regard for the consequences. He is deliberately attracting kids to his network to earn his paycheck. He is taking advantage of their lack of experience and their willingness to act on emotion. If that doesn't exhibit a lack of empathy, I don't know what does.
While the use of the word psychopath may be a bit strong, I do not believe it is completely unwarranted. It is indicated that it is hard to diagnose a psychopath, so doing so might not be the best choice, but I can absolutely see how a person could come to that conclusion.

Arguing over it is also completely beside the point of the OP.

I absolutely believe George lacks morality, and is taking advantage of the fact that many people on youtube are kids, and are going to fall for his BS.
Hell, I bought into what he is selling, and I am 34 years old. I always had a bad feeling about George, but figured with a no lock in contract, it wouldn't hurt to much to join and see if Freedom lived up to it's own hype. Sadly it does not. I didn't realize until after I joined that many of the services I joined specifically to take advantage of for my channel do not exist. In fact, every reason I had for joining ended up being lies. No minecraft server, no teamspeak, no paid designers, and no 110% rev share from the 200 something freedom points I have gotten. These were the four main reasons I joined freedom, and none of them are real. They are still advertised in videos on Georges channel, but they don't exist.
Unless I have misunderstood something, that is in fact false advertising, and illegal. The only reason it may not count as false advertising is the fact you don't have to pay for anything to join freedom, so there is very very technically no transaction taking place to join. Even if it isn't technically illegal, it is certainly immoral, and shows poor character on George's part...
 
Chris Bellum said:
I don't understand what you're getting at... Libel is a written statement of an untrue fact. Period. There's no sneaking out of it. I didn't make any statement of facts (or even close) in my original posting. You saying it was libelous holds about as much water as saying it was a Haiku or the lyrics to Beyonce's 'All The Single Ladies'.
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A statement of fact is not the same as a statement asserting an opinion as fact. Psychopathy as a diagnosis of an individual is a factual claim as it is falsifiable, thus relegating it outside normal opinion and into the realm of professional opinion. Professional opinions are statements of educated fact. Combining that a lack of substantive evidence (instability and ego related tendancies apply to many mental conditions) and the malicious method in which it was presented does make it a libelous claim. I'm not against malice in regard to Freedom as I believe much of it is justifiable, but when you attack the individual with such a claim of belief without the requisite back up, it harms your argument.

I have made claims about George and Freedom relating to the sale of snake oil in the past. This is a commonly used argument against sales tactics referring to mystical properties that give unrealistic results. The thing that I think many of his detractors are missing is that there is no apparent misleading going on, that is to say that George is not doing any of this to be nefarious. Often individuals like George, the "champion" type are eccentric, overpromise and underdeliver simply on the basis of believing their own hype. To give a video game industry analog, he is the network equivalent of Peter Molyneux. I have no doubts that the man genuinely believes what he's doing is for the benefit of all. He's just wrong and has the known and factual history of TGN to show just how true that is. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that taken in context of the current YouTube landscape, the Freedom launch is a very close mirror of TGN.
 
Tarmack said:
A statement of fact is not the same as a statement asserting an opinion as fact. Psychopathy as a diagnosis of an individual is a factual claim as it is falsifiable, thus relegating it outside normal opinion and into the realm of professional opinion. Professional opinions are statements of educated fact. Combining that a lack of substantive evidence (instability and ego related tendancies apply to many mental conditions) and the malicious method in which it was presented does make it a libelous claim. I'm not against malice in regard to Freedom as I believe much of it is justifiable, but when you attack the individual with such a claim of belief without the requisite back up, it harms your argument.

I have made claims about George and Freedom relating to the sale of snake oil in the past. This is a commonly used argument against sales tactics referring to mystical properties that give unrealistic results. The thing that I think many of his detractors are missing is that there is no apparent misleading going on, that is to say that George is not doing any of this to be nefarious. Often individuals like George, the "champion" type are eccentric, overpromise and underdeliver simply on the basis of believing their own hype. To give a video game industry analog, he is the network equivalent of Peter Molyneux. I have no doubts that the man genuinely believes what he's doing is for the benefit of all. He's just wrong and has the known and factual history of TGN to show just how true that is. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that taken in context of the current YouTube landscape, the Freedom launch is a very close mirror of TGN.
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George is, in fact, being directly misleading as to what Freedom offers and provides to members.
I have pointed this out twice in this very thread. They advertise programs that they offer, and those programs do not exist.
I have given four specific examples of these programs. (minecraft server, teamspeak server, paid designers to do channel art, and the 110% revenue share program, which doesn't work)
There are active and current threads on Freedom's own forum, as well as recent video comments, of new members asking how to find these services, only to be told by other members, and not freedom staff, that they are no longer available. I fell into that trap in early August when I joined freedom. As soon as I was signed up, I went looking into how to make use of those services, being under the impression that they were current services offered by freedom. They are the entire reason I joined.
The claim is, there wasn't enough interest in them to keep them active, but that doesn't explain why they have left the videos that advertise them, live on Freedom's youtube channel. That is being directly misleading as to what you can expect when you join Freedom. There have been decisions made to axe those services, and leave the advertisements up to be viewed. There is no mistake there. I even question weather or not there was ever a serious plan to have those services for the long term. They offered them early on when Freedom started, more than likely before there were enough members in the network to make them financially viable. My opinion on it is, they did this deliberately, so they could advertise them, then when they didn't have many people to even make use of them, they killed the services, and claimed not enough support to make them work. I personally believe this was done intentionally to draw in members, while not having to pay for these services in the long term. I have no proof of this, but it doesn't change the fact that they have never removed the videos that advertise them.

In either case, that is Freedom being directly misleading as to what you can gain by becoming a member.
 
NeightUp said:
George is, in fact, being directly misleading as to what Freedom offers and provides to members.
I have pointed this out twice in this very thread. They advertise programs that they offer, and those programs do not exist.
I have given four specific examples of these programs. (minecraft server, teamspeak server, paid designers to do channel art, and the 110% revenue share program, which doesn't work)
There are active and current threads on Freedom's own forum, as well as recent video comments, of new members asking how to find these services, only to be told by other members, and not freedom staff, that they are no longer available. I fell into that trap in early August when I joined freedom. As soon as I was signed up, I went looking into how to make use of those services, being under the impression that they were current services offered by freedom. They are the entire reason I joined.
The claim is, there wasn't enough interest in them to keep them active, but that doesn't explain why they have left the videos that advertise them, live on Freedom's youtube channel. That is being directly misleading as to what you can expect when you join Freedom. There have been decisions made to axe those services, and leave the advertisements up to be viewed. There is no mistake there. I even question weather or not there was ever a serious plan to have those services for the long term. They offered them early on when Freedom started, more than likely before there were enough members in the network to make them financially viable. My opinion on it is, they did this deliberately, so they could advertise them, then when they didn't have many people to even make use of them, they killed the services, and claimed not enough support to make them work. I personally believe this was done intentionally to draw in members, while not having to pay for these services in the long term. I have no proof of this, but it doesn't change the fact that they have never removed the videos that advertise them.

In either case, that is Freedom being directly misleading as to what you can gain by becoming a member.
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Fair point.
 
Theres really no point arguing about the words used in a sentence, just skip past this stupid argument and debate what this topic is actually about and thats George and his misleading ways.
 
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