Could somebody please explain why sub4sub is detrimental?

coda281

coda281

Member
First off let me say this - I wouldn't have thought it could have a negative impact, but it seems every YouTuber out there is explicitly warning against sub4sub. I understand that if I had 10,000 subscribers but ~200 views on each video, then something is fishy and it looks bad in terms of engagement, but does this really adversely affect your channel and video rankings?

The way I initially looked at it was: If I have 10,000 subscribers, then people viewing videos would see that and think that I produce good content (which I believe I do, just new). I see the (partially fake/dummy) subscribers as a pro in that respect. Additionally, maybe 5%-10% of these sub4subs is a real user who may turn into an authentic channel fan. What am I overlooking?

Thanks,

- The Dakaura Show
 
Sub4sub is detrimental like you said because only the sub count goes up... It doesnt bring you any benefit to your channel. Creating good content will make people pay attention on your channel and they will really start to adore you on youtube.
Sub4sub'ers are waiting a sub in return you know, this really became sometimes like a spam that makes people nervous.
If your channel will be growing constantly the subscribers count will go up automatically, there will be no worries on that.
My opinion, hope it helped.
Have a great day. :):)
 
No one would believe you produce good anything, only thing they'd see is a desperate guy who did Sub4Subs and leave. 10k subs, 200 views? If your "content" was good then you wouldn't have such a odd ratio. People aren't dumb lol.
 
I believe that sub4sub is against the terms and conditions on youtube or so I have heard I didn't read all that mumbo jumbo but anyways if people see you have a lot of subs but little to no engagement they will think something is fishy they may check out your channel but no matter how good your content is most ppl will not subscribe to you if something doesn't add up on top of that say you get 10,000 subs by doing sub4sub how many will actually watch or comment on your videos? having people subscribe to you because they like your content and getting real engagement means your hard work and dedication payed off it feels good to earn your subs and know that they like your videos and most of all they probably like you as a person. I hope this helps:)
 
Not trying to be mean here but the only times I've genuinely seen people saying sub4sub is either;
Someone with <100 subs goes on a YouTubers video, generally the YouTubers has >500000 subs. And would say something along the lines of "hey guys just starting out, just wanted you guys to know that my content is just about as good as this if not better come and check out my channel and if you sub I'll sub you back." To me this sort of comment seems like the virtual equivalent of the guy who hangs out in dingy alleys constantly making false promises to keep costumes happy. Although these kinds of people can be genuine or have fantastic content using other people's popularity to their advantage is generally frowned upon simply because on YouTube everyone started off on the same level and these people tend to want a step ahead just by going to the most popular video they can find and saying, "hey check me out I'm just as good as this guy with 5+ years experience." Like I said earlier could be genuine but it usually isn't. In science terms it's kind of a parasitic relationship where one person gains and the other is ignorant to the losses caused by it. The only other time I've seen the sub4sub used is with people I know in real life who say something along the lines of "hey man I heard you started doing YouTube so I did too, btw If you sub to me I'll sub to you, also can you give me a shout out and maybe Collab sometime cheers fam." Now since I know these people maybe I'm a little more biased but I'd also say it's because I'm a small channel, but I don't really have a problem with the sub4sub at this level, if I know the person, however shout outs and Collabs are a bit more far fetched as on my primary channel I'm planning on making Pokemon videos and the guy I'm supposedly giving a shout out to and collaborating with does nothing but cs go videos.

So to summarise because of how long I saw this post was on a close-to-the-other-persons-sub-count and similar content end its perfectly fine, keep in mind however if your subscriptions are set to public your viewers are more than capable of seeing these as a form or reccomendation, which may provide a disconnect of your recommending Pokemon fans Cs go montages.

On a nowhere-near-my-sub-count end is seen as a bit more parasitic as they are just using the other persons fame to there advantage as there is no connection between the sub4suber and the sub4subee.
 
coda281 said:
The way I initially looked at it was: If I have 10,000 subscribers, then people viewing videos would see that and think that I produce good content (which I believe I do, just new). I see the (partially fake/dummy) subscribers as a pro in that respect.
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What they will see is a terrible view/subscriber ratio. That'll make them think that you either used to be good and now suck, or that you are a sub4sub tool.

Additionally, maybe 5%-10% of these sub4subs is a real user who may turn into an authentic channel fan. What am I overlooking?
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No. For most channels, it's normal to have a view/subscriber ratio of below 20%, and that's with authentic subscribers. Sub4sub spammer are never going to watch any of your content. Ever.
 
Thank you all for your input! I really appreciate all the feedback! :)

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk
 
So what everyone said is true, but it wouldn't prevent someone from seeing your video or viewing it. The numbers aren't going to deter someone from watching a video you made if they are interested in it because of the thumbnail and/or title. The real harm in engaging in sub4sub activity is the other sub4subers themselves. They are coming to your channel and videos just to leave a comment for you to sub back to them. They only watch a couple seconds of your video and that brings your average minutes-per-view down. The more you partake in sub4subing, the larger percentage of your views will be from those people and your average minutes watched per video will drastically go down. YouTube ranks videos better the higher watch time they have and the higher watch time the channel they belong to has. The ads displayed on your videos also pay more per view.
 
Idec Sdawkminn said:
So what everyone said is true, but it wouldn't prevent someone from seeing your video or viewing it. The numbers aren't going to deter someone from watching a video you made if they are interested in it because of the thumbnail and/or title. The real harm in engaging in sub4sub activity is the other sub4subers themselves. They are coming to your channel and videos just to leave a comment for you to sub back to them. They only watch a couple seconds of your video and that brings your average minutes-per-view down. The more you partake in sub4subing, the larger percentage of your views will be from those people and your average minutes watched per video will drastically go down. YouTube ranks videos better the higher watch time they have and the higher watch time the channel they belong to has. The ads displayed on your videos also pay more per view.
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Wow that never crossed my mind! Excellent point - thanks for bringing that to my intention. I wish we knew how much youtube weighted each category when it comes to rankings (views/comments/likes/etc.)

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There may actually be harm in sub4sub for future placement of videos. So, if you read Matt Gielen's TubeFilter post "Reverse Engineering the YouTube Algorithm", you will see that he found a correlation (not necessarily a causation, but still) between low view velocity for one video (that is, if one video was not viewed much by subscribers) and lower view velocity for subsequently uploaded videos. To quote part of that post:

This data supports Matthew Patrick‘s theory outlined in this video (EDIT: can't link, but it's MatPat's video on subscriber burn), which suggests that if one of your videos is not clicked on by a large amount of subscribers, YouTube will not serve your next upload to a significant portion of your subscriber base.

It is possible that since the previous upload did poorly there will be less viewership on the channel, which will lead to less viewers passing through organically. But the results are the same regardless as to the “why”.

Another significant impact from negative View Velocity on a new upload is that there’s evidence to suggest that it also harms the viewership on your library of videos. Below you will see the first graph shows an average seven-day rolling % of subscribers who viewed in the first 48 hours (blue line) versus overall channel viewership. The second graph shows overall percentage of subscribers who watched a video that day versus overall channel viewership.

(edit: please check out the article for all the graphics)

Essentially what these graphs show is that as the percentage of your subscriber base that view new uploads and/or your library videos goes down, so does overall channel viewership. To us, what this says is that through the algorithm, YouTube actively promotes channels that appeal to that channel’s core audience, while actively punishing channels that do not.
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Sub4Subbers would see that although their subscriber counts are going up, their views per each video aren't, and thus the percentage of their subscriber base that views new uploads would decrease. If Matt's analysis is correct, then YouTube would "punish" that channel further since the channel doesn't appeal to that core audience -- even if the reason is because the core audience is actually sub4subbers.
 
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