Is it immoral for top YouTubers to have kick starters?

[Franklin]

But more so, this idea of it being "immoral" - I'm not sure philosophically how that would even work? Is the concept of investment immoral then? Which system of morality are you applying here? Christianity preaches generosity, the Greeks were pretty fond of logic and creating beautiful things... It feels weird being asked to make a spirtual, moral judgement about people we've never met via a "Yes/No" poll on the internet...

Christianity doesn't preach extreme generosity or the less fortunate giving to the more fortunate. There are not any bible stories about God asking the poor to give to the rich. It's always the other way around. However, top earning YouTubers are asking for donations to improve their product or to make a new product (Smosh mobile game). The poor donating to the rich doesn't appear to be moral. It's oblivious manipulation.

All Kickstarter does is take the power to green-light a project and give it to the actual fans of the content. So, instead of a YouTuber seeking out producers and sponsors for their more ambitious content (who may want editorial control over the content) they are able to go directly to the people who actually enjoy their stuff and say, "Hey - do you want me to make this?"

Moreover, comparing any media business model to a franchise-based fast-food chain is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous when you think about it. I was not comparing the two business models. I was talking about the very basic business model that every business has. Let's look at again for you to understand.

Here is the scenario again. You go to McDonald's and order a number one (Big Mac combo). The cashier tells you the price and you pay it. Then the cashier asks you to come back and pay for the stove. What?

Here is the media scenario. A top YouTuber produces content and earns 100K a year from it. He or she would not be able to earn 100K without the fans. Now this person is asking for your money to buy a new camera. Keep in mind you already helped this person earn 100K a year by watching their content. Now this person wants your cash on top of his or her YouTube earnings. What?

The point is that it is not the consumer's responsibility to pay for the means of production. That reminds true for every business and that was the point of my message. The basic consumer-business relationship is very simple. The business gathers its means of production and creates the product. Next the consumer buys the product if he or she wants it and if they like it then they will continue to buy it.

Now let's look at a Smosh's campaign. You watch their YouTube videos and they earn money from the ad revenue. They say that they want to make a "free" mobile game and they need you to donate 250K. How is it free when you're paying for it to be made? It's not free when you're paying for it.

The consumer should never pay for both the means of production and the product. That's not how it works and people are being to exploit the relationship.

 

[CoolMoo5]

It would be really hard to tell the top YouTubers they can't start kickstarters, where would we draw the line. What defines a top YouTuber? Some people might think it is immoral, but they should be allowed to use kickstarter because it is a platform open to everyone.

Also, kickstarter is for projects only so anyone using kickstarter for cameras, equipment, or medical bills are breaking the rules of kickstarter. There are other sites they can use for this, but kickstarter is for projects with a beginning and end. A new camera or laptop is not a project.

 

[WolfWraith]

$27K is decent depending on where you live and if you live alone. Please keep in mind the majority of 18+ Youtubers have jobs outside of YouTube. Most YouTubers aren't like Smosh and can live off of YouTube alone. Let's be honest the $27K is more than enough for him to purchase new equipment. My best friend has a degree in media and earns less than $25K per year. He can afford very good equipment and software without needing to start a kick starter. He has also made small film projects over the past few years as well. Don't forget that budgeting plays a huge factor.

I'm currently unemployed with a BS degree and seeking employment. I don't have money to afford the cards and decks I showcase on my channel. I didn't make a campaign for assistance. Instead I looked for other means to support my channel. I use reward programs such as Quick Rewards, Swagbucks, and most Points2Shop for my needs. Quick Rewards and Bubblews are used for my personal income. Points2Shop is used for my card gaming needs for my channel. Last year I earned $250 in Amazon gift cards from Swagbucks for my card game channel and I earned over $100 in Amazon and Paypal this year. I stopped using Swagbucks in favor of Points2Shop and Quick Rewards because I can earn more money faster with those sites. But of course my method doesn't work for everyone.

People aren't assuming every YouTuber has a load of cash. People know big guns in their niche have money especially when they make thousands per year.

$27k is nothing if you're saving up to move out. Just because you used other methods to fund your channel, doesn't mean someone else has to. At the end of the day, it's how life works; they asked, they recieved (or didn't if it was for the wrong reasons), don't ask and you won't know what you'll get. Kickstarter is about investing in something to see it become successful whether it's investing in a business or a project that provides entertainment for people, it doesn't matter if they already have enough to fund it because having money doesn't mean you automatically have money to throw around whererever and whenever you want. That $30k+ I saved up, was literally all my money spent on a car, I had to borrow $10k off my folks to pay for it since it was $40k, I had $5k left over and when I eventually made another $5k I paid my folks off half so far, just because I had $40k to spend didn't mean I needed to spend it, life lesson learned for me there, now I won't even be able to afford the insurance and rego on the car next year, buy a car to enjoy it only to get ****** in the end, oh well xD. Even if they're earning what's considered enough to YOU, you have to remember that if they spend that money, that's money that's spent, money that's taken away from saving up for something else and if viewers want to see the channel keep going, then it's up to them as to whether they want to help, not the channel owner, the channel owner is doing nothing but asking.

 

[Franklin]

$27k is nothing if you're saving up to move out. Just because you used other methods to fund your channel, doesn't mean someone else has to. At the end of the day, it's how life works; they asked, they recieved (or didn't if it was for the wrong reasons), don't ask and you won't know what you'll get. Kickstarter is about investing in something to see it become successful whether it's investing in a business or a project that provides entertainment for people, it doesn't matter if they already have enough to fund it because having money doesn't mean you automatically have money to throw around whererever and whenever you want. That $30k+ I saved up, was literally all my money spent on a car, I had to borrow $10k off my folks to pay for it since it was $40k, I had $5k left over and when I eventually made another $5k I paid my folks off half so far, just because I had $40k to spend didn't mean I needed to spend it, life lesson learned for me there, now I won't even be able to afford the insurance and rego on the car next year, buy a car to enjoy it only to get ****** in the end, oh well xD. Even if they're earning what's considered enough to YOU, you have to remember that if they spend that money, that's money that's spent, money that's taken away from saving up for something else and if viewers want to see the channel keep going, then it's up to them as to whether they want to help, not the channel owner, the channel owner is doing nothing but asking.

Are you serious? If they blow their money on a $40K car that they can't afford then why in the world should anyone trust them with donated money?

Your example is very bad and will prove my point. You paid $40K for a card that you cannot afford insurance for. That's poor budgeting. You should also budget your funds to plan for the future. That's how a business is suppose to work, but many businesses today do not budget properly.

Why are you mentioning moving out or assuming it? The person is not seeking to move out. The person is seeking our money for his channel's benefit which pretty much benefits him. As I said a person can live off of $27K if they live alone, BUDGET their money, and depending on their cost of living. If you're making $27 per year from YouTube on top of a normal job then you should be fine as well.

Yes, I use different resources to fund my channel. Anyone can do the same if they wanted to. I know another Yugituber, CyberKnight in my niche who uses the same resources as me and he has made thousands of dollars from those resources. The last time I checked his site earns 50K per year. He doesn't get people to buy equipment for his channel. If you can't afford your channel's requirements then by all means at least try other sources before begging people to help you. Your channel is YOUR responsibility.

Can we be real and logical here? If they have enough money in their budget to buy what they need or want, then they need to buy it. Smosh asking for $250K when they make will over a million dolloars per year on one channel alone is a disgrace. They earn additional money from many other channels.

Kevin Durrant recently recieved $300 million dollars from Under Armor. He has more than enough money to buy anything he wants. Would you honestly tell me that that's enough money to ME? Would you truly believe his kickstarter would be justifiable?

 

[WolfWraith]

Christianity doesn't preach extreme generosity or the less fortunate giving to the more fortunate. There are not any bible stories about God asking the poor to give to the rich. It's always the other way around. However, top earning YouTubers are asking for donations to improve their product or to make a new product (Smosh mobile game). The poor donating to the rich doesn't appear to be moral. It's oblivious manipulation.



It's not ridiculous when you think about it. I was not comparing the two business models. I was talking about the very basic business model that every business has. Let's look at again for you to understand.

Here is the scenario again. You go to McDonald's and order a number one (Big Mac combo). The cashier tells you the price and you pay it. Then the cashier asks you to come back and pay for the stove. What?

Here is the media scenario. A top YouTuber produces content and earns 100K a year from it. He or she would not be able to earn 100K without the fans. Now this person is asking for your money to buy a new camera. Keep in mind you already helped this person earn 100K a year by watching their content. Now this person wants your cash on top of his or her YouTube earnings. What?

The point is that it is not the consumer's responsibility to pay for the means of production. That reminds true for every business and that was the point of my message. The basic consumer-business relationship is very simple. The business gathers its means of production and creates the product. Next the consumer buys the product if he or she wants it and if they like it then they will continue to buy it.

Now let's look at a Smosh's campaign. You watch their YouTube videos and they earn money from the ad revenue. They say that they want to make a "free" mobile game and they need you to donate 250K. How is it free when you're paying for it to be made? It's not free when you're paying for it.

The consumer should never pay for both the means of production and the product. That's not how it works and people are being to exploit the relationship.

I think you're getting a few things confused, watching youtube does NOT make you or anyone for that matter; a consumer, unless they pay specifically for that service or product, you're not even a customer or a client when you watch YouTube. So your scenario is irrelevant to YouTubers starting Kickstarters, in fact multi billion $ businesses that would do something like that are a whole different matter. As for the 2nd scenario it still makes sense: "Keep in mind you already helped this person earn 100K a year by watching their content." which is correct; you and many others did so without spending a single cent at all, all you did was watch an ad by your own choice. "He or she would not be able to earn 100K without the fans." also correct, just like any tv show or movie, you see TV shows that crumble like Firefly or Almost Human for example and the FANS are the 1s who step up with petitions and funds to try and save it or bring it back or help it continue, but you'd probably argue that the fans watched the show and the show made money from the ads, which clearly did a whole lot of good them if they're show's being cancelled. A YouTube channel compared to a TV channel isn't too far off. As I said in my previous post, even earning 100k/yr I'd still have to save up for 6-8yrs just to get a home, at 24yrs of age that means I wouldn't be able to move out until I'm at least 30-32yrs old, while I have 0 chances of being able to make the money needed to get somewhere, I don't see why someone else who can shouldn't. In fact, being stuck at home affects my ability to record properly and even enjoy my time at home, so I'd say anyone 18+ should be looking for a way to move out as soon as possible by whatever means necessary, if funding a YouTube channel is the way so that you can make better videos to make more income to save up, then do it.

As for the Smosh game; it makes 0 sense to point it out because an investor is completely different to a consumer. The investors pay to fund the project, the consumers or customers (since they aren't paying for it) get the game for free.

Now if that YouTuber is making 100k/yr and spending their money on fancy s**t like expensive clothes, jewelry, buying fancy big 60" TVs, fast cars etc... and then acting like they're not making enough to fund the channel and ask for donations, then and only then we can start talking about moral issues.

 

[Franklin]

I think you're getting a few things confused, watching youtube does NOT make you or anyone for that matter; a consumer, unless they pay specifically for that service or product, you're not even a customer or a client when you watch YouTube.

I'm not confused. We are consumers. We are the channels' audience and they are shooting their videos to their target audience's liking. They need us to make money so they provide entertainment (A SERVICE) to us the CUSTOMER.

you and many others did so without spending a single cent at all,

I pay my internet provider to have access to the internet to watch YouTube videos. YouTube does not receive any of this money. However, it is a competing website. It can only earn money if I pay for internet access and browser their site. I did in fact spend $30 to have access to YouTube from my internet provider.

"He or she would not be able to earn 100K without the fans." also correct, just like any tv show or movie, you see TV shows that crumble like Firefly or Almost Human for example and the FANS are the 1s who step up with petitions and funds to try and save it or bring it back or help it continue, but you'd probably argue that the fans watched the show and the show made money from the ads, which clearly did a whole lot of good them if they're show's being cancelled. A YouTube channel compared to a TV channel isn't too far off.

This is a terrible example. The majority of people would never donate money to fund a TV show.

Don't assume how I'm going to argue against your response. You're not understanding how ad revenue works and shows being canceling. Fans are going to watch a show. However, a show needs a lot of fans to make money and keep high ratings. Shows are canceled when ratings in low and producers do not want to invest anymore money into the show. They're losing money or breaking even. Networks are gaining much from the ad revenue so they see the show as being a failed project.

As I said in my previous post, even earning 100k/yr I'd still have to save up for 6-8yrs just to get a home, at 24yrs of age that means I wouldn't be able to move out until I'm at least 30-32yrs old, while I have 0 chances of being able to make the money needed to get somewhere, I don't see why someone else who can shouldn't. In fact, being stuck at home affects my ability to record properly and even enjoy my time at home, so I'd say anyone 18+ should be looking for a way to move out as soon as possible by whatever means necessary, if funding a YouTube channel is the way so that you can make better videos to make more income to save up, then do it.

I had to read this comment five times. This is beyond the craziest comment I have ever read in my life. If you're earning 100K per year then you have more than enough money to buy a home. How would you be unable to move out at 24 years old with 100K? Your budgeting sound so strange. You already said that you bought a 40K car that you can't afford insurance for next year. Now you strangely believe a 100K yearly income is not enough to buy a home.

Now if that YouTuber is making 100k/yr and spending their money on fancy s**t like expensive clothes, jewelry, buying fancy big 60" TVs, fast cars etc... and then acting like they're not making enough to fund the channel and ask for donations, then and only then we can start talking about moral issues.

That's the entire point of this discussion. YouTubers who earn plenty of money and are saying they need our money to help their channels. Nobody is talking about small YouTubers starting Kickstarters. We're talking about the big boys and girls in the neighborhood.

 

[WolfWraith]

Are you serious? If they blow their money on a $40K car that they can't afford then why in the world should anyone trust them with donated money?

Your example is very bad and will prove my point. You paid $40K for a card that you cannot afford insurance for. That's poor budgeting. You should also budget your funds to plan for the future. That's how a business is suppose to work, but many businesses today do not budget properly.

Becareful before you make assumptions like that about me, I've been unemployed for over a year now, when I purchased the car I still had a job, in fact I pre-ordered the car 6months prior to purchasing it cause I planned for extra income to pay it off and as soon as I did I started saving even more than I already was. I had the job for about 6months after purchasing the car, but I couldn't handle my boss' bullying tactics and had to leave. When I had purchased the car I had anticipated that I'd have the job for another 1-2yrs and that I could look for new work in the mean time since my manager thought I was "a good employee". After purchasing it I became really stingy, so my budgeting tightened a little more on top of what it already had. Had I known how bad my boss and employees would have gotten, had I known how really bad it was to find new work, I'd have not dared to spend anywhere near that amount for a car, no matter what I had planned I was screwed, damned if I do, damned if I don't. So I don't see how my example will prove your point.

Why are you mentioning moving out or assuming it? The person is not seeking to move out. The person is seeking our money for his channel's benefit which pretty much benefits him. As I said a person can live off of $27K if they live alone, BUDGET their money, and depending on their cost of living. If you're making $27 per year from YouTube on top of a normal job then you should be fine as well.

I'm mentiniong it because you're automatically assuming their kickstarters are purely to benefit them without them factoring in their own budgets. They are going to get the money to be able to purchase the equipment eventually, a Kickstarter just speeds up the process. If they're starting a kickstarter to benefit ONLY them, they'd be asking for something like a camera and then not doing videos with it and only using it in their personal time, if you donate money to them so they can fund their channel which YOU watch, then it is benefiting you. A YouTuber asking for donations to fund their channel does not mean they are not taking responsibility for it. Time goes forward it doesn't go backwards, so if people want to make something of their lives the faster they do it the better and I see no problems with that. You can do it your way, they can do it their way.

Can we be real and logical here? If they have enough money in their budget to buy what they need or want, then they need to buy it. Smosh asking for $250K when they make will over a million dolloars per year on one channel alone is a disgrace. They earn additional money from many other channels.

Kevin Durrant recently recieved $300 million dollars from Under Armor. He has more than enough money to buy anything he wants. Would you honestly tell me that that's enough money to ME? Would you truly believe his kickstarter would be justifiable?

I was not initially discussing Kevin Durrant or Smosh, I was targeting primarilly that MegaCapU or whatever his/her name was. But yes, if their budget allows for the purchase of equipment then of course they should buy it with their own money as long as they'll have excess money left over, but this wasn't how the original post was worded.

 

[Franklin]

Becareful before you make assumptions like that about me, I've been unemployed for over a year now, when I purchased the car I still had a job, in fact I pre-ordered the car 6months prior to purchasing it cause I planned for extra income to pay it off and as soon as I did I started saving even more than I already was. I had the job for about 6months after purchasing the car, but I couldn't handle my boss' bullying tactics and had to leave. When I had purchased the car I had anticipated that I'd have the job for another 1-2yrs and that I could look for new work in the mean time since my manager thought I was "a good employee". After purchasing it I became really stingy, so my budgeting tightened a little more on top of what it already had. Had I known how bad my boss and employees would have gotten, had I known how really bad it was to find new work, I'd have not dared to spend anywhere near that amount for a car, no matter what I had planned I was screwed, damned if I do, damned if I don't. So I don't see how my example will prove your point.

Again you proved my point. Everyone has met the boss who he or she hates. Unless your boss was doing something illegal to you then your excuse for leaving your job is YOUR FAULT. It's YOUR FAULT that you failed to budget your money accordingly. Most people look for a job while they have a job. They just don't walk out and leave. They stay put until they find something better. You screwed yourself.

I worked on campus when I was gong to school. My first and only boss was a pain in the butt. She bullied me several times. I thought about quitting my job, but I stopped myself. I needed money when I was going to school. I sucked it up and told her F you. She needed me because I was her only good employee. I paid my bills because I kept my job. I graduated with my degree and now I'm unemployed looking for a job. It's not because I quit a job. I'm not a student any longer so I'm unable to work student jobs. I didn't screw myself. Nobody screwed me. I budget my money and life my life while seeking employment.

My mother does not like her boss. However, she needs the money. She needs to pay her bills. She still has the same job while looking for something better.

 

[WolfWraith]

I'm not confused. We are consumers. We are the channels' audience and they are shooting their videos to their target audience's liking. They need us to make money so they provide entertainment (A SERVICE) to us the CUSTOMER.

consumer
kənˈsjuːmə/
noun
noun: consumer; plural noun: consumers
a person who purchases goods and services for personal use.
You're not paying for YouTube.

I pay my internet provider to have access to the internet to watch YouTube videos. YouTube does not receive any of this money. However, it is a competing website. It can only earn money if I pay for internet access and browser their site. I did in fact spend $30 to have access to YouTube from my internet provider.

When you pay for your internet, there's nothing in the package that provides YouTube as an additional service, you're using YouTube out of your own choice. If you had to pay to watch YouTube on top of that $30 then yeah different story, I probably wouldn't even watch YouTube if I had to pay for it, I don't even pay for stuff like PS+ which I think is crap.

I had to read this comment five times. This is beyond the craziest comment I have ever read in my life. If you're earning 100K per year then you have more than enough money to buy a home. How would you be unable to move out at 24 years old with 100K? Your budgeting sound so strange. You already said that you bought a 40K car that you can't afford insurance for next year. Now you strangely believe a 100K yearly income is not enough to buy a home.

Oh I dunno, maybe because down here $100k doesn't actually get you a house, in fact for a dump you're looking at about $250k and as I mentioned, or at least I think I did in a previous post, an average house costs about $600k down here. Just to clarify as well, I'm not or never have earned $100k/yr, I was using that as an example.

Again you proved my point. Everyone has met the boss who he or she hates. Unless your boss was doing something illegal to you then your excuse for leaving your job is YOUR FAULT. It's YOUR FAULT that you failed to budget your money accordingly. Most people look for a job while they have a job. They just don't walk out and leave. They stay put until they find something better. You screwed yourself.

Now you're just being an outright f*****g idiot, everyone has to be like you? It's my fault that my boss was pushing me to a point where I was going to hurt myself or worse someone else? It's my fault that I tried to leave my job after my first month but no other employers would take me? It's my fault that I stayed longer than 6 months with my first boss because I wanted to help him out and stay loyal? I left to protect my mentality thank you very much. I needed the money and I still do, but my health and mental stability was way more important than money at the time, I've snapped once before and I paid the price for it and so did someone else who didn't deserve to. The only reason I didn't dob my boss in is because the people in head office didn't give a s**t. They offered me my job back and I didn't take it, I'd rather die than work in that f*****g place. Have some f*****g consideration for people who can't just switch on and off happiness like you yeah you don't have be a f*****g ***** about it.

 

[Franklin]

I'm going to overlook most of your post and focus on the bigger fish to fry.

Oh I dunno, maybe because down here $100k doesn't actually get you a house, in fact for a dump you're looking at about $250k and as I mentioned, or at least I think I did in a previous post, an average house costs about $600k down here. Just to clarify as well, I'm not or never have earned $100k/yr, I was using that as an example.

Where are you from? You sound like someone from a place with a high cost of living. There are many areas in the US with very nice homes that are affordable with a $100K income. My professor made $65K a year and live in a very nice home. He has a nice steel gate and a big yard. It all depends on where you live.

Now you're just being an outright f*****g idiot, everyone has to be like you? It's my fault that my boss was pushing me to a point where I was going to hurt myself or worse someone else? It's my fault that I tried to leave my job after my first month but no other employers would take me? It's my fault that I stayed longer than 6 months with my first boss because I wanted to help him out and stay loyal? I left to protect my mentality thank you very much. I needed the money and I still do, but my health and mental stability was way more important than money at the time, I've snapped once before and I paid the price for it and so did someone else who didn't deserve to. The only reason I didn't dob my boss in is because the people in head office didn't give a s**t. They offered me my job back and I didn't take it, I'd rather die than work in that f*****g place. Have some f*****g consideration for people who can't just switch on and off happiness like you yeah you don't have be a f*****g ***** about it.

If your boss was pushing you to the point of hurting someone then you seriously need help. I have been bullied in my life and only resulted to violence in self-defense when someone went too far by using violence. I'm black and was assaulted on campus by a black guy because I don't like anyone including blacks calling me the N word. I was pretty angry about it. Very few people supported me. However, I did not feel like I was going to hurt someone. I did not take my anger out on anyone.

Nowhere I did say to turn your happiness on of off. My mother hates her job. Her happiness is not turned on. She works there for the money to pay her bills. If she quit then how would she pay her bills? That's what most people think before quitting a job. They look for a better job before quitting their current jobs.