Been reading here for a week, still don't understand networks...

[Flammy]

I would like to hear from fellow YouTubers who were making money first and joined a network second. Did your revenues increase? Did you receive any sort of promotion? Is there some future reason for joining a network that I am not forseeing? Is there any compelling reason why I should join a network?

First off, not sure if you ran across it, but I wrote this post which you will probably find interesting: http://yttalk.com/threads/i-just-go...earch-have-you-done-yours-guide-advice.52842/

My revenue did increase. However I would not expect this to happen in all or even most partnering situations... especially if you're getting 10k views per month and are signing a basic contract (ah la 60-40).

In terms of promotion, no, but I didn't expect any. In my situation (which is VERY unusual) I could fairly easily have my network focus on promotion which could go as far as them spending money to promote specific videos, etc. As of yet I'm working on other priorities (improving quality, getting some other stuff up and running) currently. This is exactly what I expected however. Do not expect any promotion that isn't explicitly stated ahead of time.

reason to join - additional channel protection (copyright, etc) and contact with YouTube to deal with situations. You won't get much/any of this when small, generally.

 

[TinHatRanch]

I think I already have Flammy's opinion from his sig:
"Thinking about getting a partnership? Don't. You probably don't need one and if you sign when you're a small channel you're just getting shafted.
Am I partnered? Yes. I am currently on a 3 month (yes, months) contract at 75-25. I turned down 3 offers that were 90-10 or better for more support. Do your research. Don't get shafted.
Why I am wasting space in my signature telling you this? Because this forum is full of people who think getting partnered is a golden ticket.

~ Flammy"[DOUBLEPOST=1366896413,1366895792][/DOUBLEPOST]

First off, not sure if you ran across it, but I wrote this post which you will probably find interesting:

My revenue did increase. However I would not expect this to happen in all or even most partnering situations... especially if you're getting 10k views per month and are signing a basic contract (ah la 60-40).

In terms of promotion, no, but I didn't expect any. In my situation (which is VERY unusual) I could fairly easily have my network focus on promotion which could go as far as them spending money to promote specific videos, etc. As of yet I'm working on other priorities (improving quality, getting some other stuff up and running) currently. This is exactly what I expected however. Do not expect any promotion that isn't explicitly stated ahead of time.

reason to join - additional channel protection (copyright, etc) and contact with YouTube to deal with situations. You won't get much/any of this when small, generally.

Another thing I am struggling with is how to determine "small" "medium" and "large" networks. Stats and channel views are just a snapshot in time. Even current daily views are meaningless in regards to overall talent and potential.

If these networks were smart and they could recognize talent they might spend more time actually working with partners and developing the channels. Talent is talent. Say you were a network scout and ran across a channel with REALLY good content but there was some issue with it, bad lighting, crappy camera, poor titles, tags, thumbnails. I simple suggestion could make a substandard production with awesome talent into a YT superstar. Even knowing where to market a channel can make all of the difference. <-- that is why I don't understand why they don't help in promotion.

I've already ran into trouble with my network. Someone stole one of my series and reposted it. I tried to contact the channel but all forms of communication were off, so I reported it to youtube. They gave the channel a strike...and then the fun began. Dislikes, almost a 100 of them in the span of two hours, dozens of pointless moronic comments. I understand a few dislikes on a video. It seems that videos I post will get 1..maybe 2. But if you look at my channel, most videos posted before April 2nd have MANY dislikes. All of them came on that day in 2 hours. I figure I will eventually grow out of them but it sucks. Don't know if a network could have helped me there.

 

[Flammy]

Another thing I am struggling with is how to determine "small" "medium" and "large" networks. Stats and channel views are just a snapshot in time. Even current daily views are meaningless in regards to overall talent and potential.

If these networks were smart and they could recognize talent they might spend more time actually working with partners and developing the channels. Talent is talent. Say you were a network scout and ran across a channel with REALLY good content but there was some issue with it, bad lighting, crappy camera, poor titles, tags, thumbnails. I simple suggestion could make a substandard production with awesome talent into a YT superstar. Even knowing where to market a channel can make all of the difference. <-- that is why I don't understand why they don't help in promotion.

I've already ran into trouble with my network. Someone stole one of my series and reposted it. I tried to contact the channel but all forms of communication were off, so I reported it to youtube. They gave the channel a strike...and then the fun began. Dislikes, almost a 100 of them in the span of two hours, dozens of pointless moronic comments. I understand a few dislikes on a video. It seems that videos I post will get 1..maybe 2. But if you look at my channel, most videos posted before April 2nd have MANY dislikes. All of them came on that day in 2 hours. I figure I will eventually grow out of them but it sucks. Don't know if a network could have helped me there.

I've said it in a few places, but best way to measure channel size is by views per month.

Yes, subscribers and videos you're doing per day/week matter, but when it comes to revenue (which is how networks really look at all of this) revenue is directly related to 1) views and 2) monetization rate and 3) cpm. They know what the CPM is, monetization rate you know what it is, and you both know what your views are.

This means it all is based on views.

• Under 9,999 views per month - Never partner
• Between 10,000 views per month and 100,000 - You could consider partnering. I would probably recommend partnering with AdSense at this point. Definitely don't rush into any network deal. Definitely hold out if you can, or sign some no lock in and keep looking for better options as you continue growing.
• 100,000 views per month to 500,000 views per month - Consider partnering. If you can wait til you are bigger, your opportunities only get better, however.
• 500,000 views per month and above - You can safely assume you have a lot of negotiating power. Everyone should be willing to work with you and your wishes. If someone doesn't seem to want to work to attract your channel, they probably won't support you if you join. Keep looking for the right network.

If anyone is 100k+ feel free to ask me about the big guys (Fullscreen, Maker, BBTV, Machinima, and the small exclusive networks) as I have done extensive comparisons and talked with everyone. I don't really want to write it all up right now publicly. Send me a message on YT talk if you have 50 posts or on YouTube if you don't.

 

[TinHatRanch]

I've said it in a few places, but best way to measure channel size is by views per month.

Yes, subscribers and videos you're doing per day/week matter, but when it comes to revenue (which is how networks really look at all of this) revenue is directly related to 1) views and 2) monetization rate and 3) cpm. They know what the CPM is, monetization rate you know what it is, and you both know what your views are.

This means it all is based on views.

• Under 9,999 views per month - Never partner
• Between 10,000 views per month and 100,000 - You could consider partnering. I would probably recommend partnering with AdSense at this point. Definitely don't rush into any network deal. Definitely hold out if you can, or sign some no lock in and keep looking for better options as you continue growing.
• 100,000 views per month to 500,000 views per month - Consider partnering. If you can wait til you are bigger, your opportunities only get better, however.
• 500,000 views per month and above - You can safely assume you have a lot of negotiating power. Everyone should be willing to work with you and your wishes. If someone doesn't seem to want to work to attract your channel, they probably won't support you if you join. Keep looking for the right network.

If anyone is 100k+ feel free to ask me about the big guys (Fullscreen, Maker, BBTV, Machinima, and the small exclusive networks) as I have done extensive comparisons and talked with everyone. I don't really want to write it all up right now publicly. Send me a message on YT talk if you have 50 posts or on YouTube if you don't.

If that is really true that is all they care about with new channels is views per month than they are missing the boat. If business is so good that they can just pick from unpartnered channels with half a million views per month then I understand. If not, and they never look at new unpartnered channels to discover new talent then they are doing it all wrong. YT and their relationship with networks has been likened to early Hollywood. While I understand that media delivery is wholly changed in the last 80-90 years this would be akin to Hollywood only signing successful Broadway stars and completely ignoring folks who show up for auditions. I wonder if these network folks ever even look at a single video from folks applying for partnership with less than 100,000 views a month. I've seen numerous channels that are out there that should be going somewhere but aren't. I've seen channels that shouldn't be anywhere but got lucky...once. I guess it still goes to show media like YT is still in it's infancy.

I guess I will wait to partner. The problem is I am running out of ideas to market my channel. I also need help with graphics and overall production..even advice about my channel from folks that really understand the business.

Thanks for your help, I did check out your thread on networks. It is great to see that your agent spends time with you and they offer assistance on all of those things.

 

[Flammy]

If that is really true that is all they care about with new channels is views per month than they are missing the boat. If business is so good that they can just pick from unpartnered channels with half a million views per month then I understand. If not, and they never look at new unpartnered channels to discover new talent then they are doing it all wrong. YT and their relationship with networks has been likened to early Hollywood. While I understand that media delivery is wholly changed in the last 80-90 years this would be akin to Hollywood only signing successful Broadway stars and completely ignoring folks who show up for auditions. I wonder if these network folks ever even look at a single video from folks applying for partnership with less than 100,000 views a month. I've seen numerous channels that are out there that should be going somewhere but aren't. I've seen channels that shouldn't be anywhere but got lucky...once. I guess it still goes to show media like YT is still in it's infancy.

The only difference is if they partner channels there is literally no cost to doing so, and when it is a rev share setup there is no risk either.

Hence perpetually lowering partnership minimums.

I guess I will wait to partner. The problem is I am running out of ideas to market my channel. I also need help with graphics and overall production..even advice about my channel from folks that really understand the business.

Thanks for your help, I did check out your thread on networks. It is great to see that your agent spends time with you and they offer assistance on all of those things.

They aren't geniususes when it comes to youtube nor channel promotion. I know at least as much as almost every rep or recruiter I talk to. Or I am more knowledgable in most areas and they know more about specific network dynamics...

No one has figured out the secret to YouTube. They are all just looking around at what else is working and doing their best to muddle along.

In terms of graphics/production - Yeah, that is definitely possible. It is going to be like working with any sort of employee of yours... You gotta train them for what you want, and babysit the hell out of them at first. I'm definitely in that stage still.

 

[Priyam]

I've said it in a few places, but best way to measure channel size is by views per month.

Yes, subscribers and videos you're doing per day/week matter, but when it comes to revenue (which is how networks really look at all of this) revenue is directly related to 1) views and 2) monetization rate and 3) cpm. They know what the CPM is, monetization rate you know what it is, and you both know what your views are.

This means it all is based on views.

• Under 9,999 views per month - Never partner
• Between 10,000 views per month and 100,000 - You could consider partnering. I would probably recommend partnering with AdSense at this point. Definitely don't rush into any network deal. Definitely hold out if you can, or sign some no lock in and keep looking for better options as you continue growing.
• 100,000 views per month to 500,000 views per month - Consider partnering. If you can wait til you are bigger, your opportunities only get better, however.
• 500,000 views per month and above - You can safely assume you have a lot of negotiating power. Everyone should be willing to work with you and your wishes. If someone doesn't seem to want to work to attract your channel, they probably won't support you if you join. Keep looking for the right network.

If anyone is 100k+ feel free to ask me about the big guys (Fullscreen, Maker, BBTV, Machinima, and the small exclusive networks) as I have done extensive comparisons and talked with everyone. I don't really want to write it all up right now publicly. Send me a message on YT talk if you have 50 posts or on YouTube if you don't.

@flammy5 Are you trying to tell that the bigger your channel grows, the better it is to get into a network?
If you are ARE, then that so not the case. Why do you thing people join networks? It's all for promotion, support, better protection, MAYBE a better CPM and previously branding options which is not the case now. If someone has a big channel, the most logical thing they should do should be become independent. They have audience, they don't need protection or support and they get good ads for they are are big. Partner benefits, they already should be having.
So I just want to conclude that if someone has a big channel, networks should be a pointless option unless they feed just chosen channels like smosh in alloy.
RWJ you might have heard how discontent he was with the maker commotion.
NigaHiga and Jenna marbles are just YT partners.

 

[Flammy]

@flammy5 Are you trying to tell that the bigger your channel grows, the better it is to get into a network?
If you are ARE, then that so not the case. Why do you thing people join networks? It's all for promotion, support, better protection, MAYBE a better CPM and previously branding options which is not the case now. If someone has a big channel, the most logical thing they should do should be become independent. They have audience, they don't need protection or support and they get good ads for they are are big. Partner benefits, they already should be having.
So I just want to conclude that if someone has a big channel, networks should be a pointless option unless they feed just chosen channels like smosh in alloy.
RWJ you might have heard how discontent he was with the maker commotion.
NigaHiga and Jenna marbles are just YT partners.

The primary reason to join a network for bigger channels are to have better CPM. Period, the end.

I am saying IF you are going to join a channel, it is much better to join when larger as you can negotiate much, much better.

As for those specific channels, they probably are full YouTube partners which provides extra perks which normal AdSense does not have access to.

As for promotion, if you think you are going to be getting something that will help your channel grow in your standard network contract, you are VERY much mistaken.

 

[Priyam]

The primary reason to join a network for bigger channels are to have better CPM. Period, the end.

I am saying IF you are going to join a channel, it is much better to join when larger as you can negotiate much, much better.

As for those specific channels, they probably are full YouTube partners which provides extra perks which normal AdSense does not have access to.

As for promotion, if you think you are going to be getting something that will help your channel grow in your standard network contract, you are VERY much mistaken.

This is going somewhere else...anyway.

They don't always get a better CPM. Why do you think Smosh is partnered with Alloy and Nigahiga isn't partnered at all? The network is Chanel specific taking just chosen once and provide perfect interest based ads. NigHiga could have just randomly joined fullscreen or maker but why didnt he? It's obvious they don't provide the exactly premium ads that are meant for specific channels, it would give him very low standards CPM compared to it Along with the terrible cuts.

It's exactly what I'm trying to mention here. Promotion is exactly what people expect they will get if they partner a network but they nerver get it. It's just for the bigger partners or the longer trustable partners that had statyed with them for long. I didn't talk that promotion is what they will get if they partner but promotion is what most looks for but they never get it.[DOUBLEPOST=1366902694,1366902479][/DOUBLEPOST]I was just trying to counter your statement that in MY opinion WHY I THINK it's better NOT TO PARTNER with networks if your channel is big.

 

[Flammy]

This is going somewhere else...anyway.

They don't always get a better CPM. Why do you think Smosh is partnered with Alloy and Nigahiga isn't partnered at all? The network is Chanel specific taking just chosen once and provide perfect interest based ads. NigHiga could have just randomly joined fullscreen or maker but why didnt he? It's obvious they don't provide the exactly premium ads that are meant for specific channels, it would give him very low standards CPM compared to it Along with the terrible cuts.

It's exactly what I'm trying to mention here. Promotion is exactly what people expect they will get if they partner a network but they nerver get it. It's just for the bigger partners or the longer trustable partners that had statyed with them for long. I didn't talk that promotion is what they will get if they partner but promotion is what most looks for but they never get it.[DOUBLEPOST=1366902694,1366902479][/DOUBLEPOST]I was just trying to counter your statement that in MY opinion WHY I THINK it's better NOT TO PARTNER with networks if your channel is big.

My initial comments are all aimed at small channels as that is what is here on YTtalk.

It is a very bad idea to look at massive channels to guide your partnership decisions. Completely apples and oranges. They might NOT partner because the network wants them to cross promote other series/channels. They might NOT partner because it would place restrictions on their content or creative choices. They MIGHT partner because they get non monetary benefits such as access to hardware, editors, recording spaces, script writers, etc.

Another reason that I mentioned you seemed to have glossed over was the Full YouTube partnerships. Many channels have them, and the biggest work directly with YouTube employees as their 'network'. They probably are getting all the perks of being in a network as a massive channel without all the b******t like contract terms or money grubbing networks. (YT can use their biggest channels to promote the site itself, rather than focus on squeezing every penny out of them)

 

[Priyam]

My initial comments are all aimed at small channels as that is what is here on YTtalk.

It is a very bad idea to look at massive channels to guide your partnership decisions. Completely apples and oranges. They might NOT partner because the network wants them to cross promote other series/channels. They might NOT partner because it would place restrictions on their content or creative choices. They MIGHT partner because they get non monetary benefits such as access to hardware, editors, recording spaces, script writers, etc.

Another reason that I mentioned you seemed to have glossed over was the Full YouTube partnerships. Many channels have them, and the biggest work directly with YouTube employees as their 'network'. They probably are getting all the perks of being in a network as a massive channel without all the b******t like contract terms or money grubbing networks. (YT can use their biggest channels to promote the site itself, rather than focus on squeezing every penny out of them)

Please do look again where I quoted your post. When you were trying to explain that bigger channels ought to join network because its better for them. I then countered that and now you're saying exactly For what I was going against you -_-

And yes I know the direct youtube partnerships. Where the channl is a Official Youtube Partner. YOU ARE ONE OF THEM and you're IN a network. I see your reason since you have a gaming channel, but it doesn't go well with the bigger ones that aren't gaming.